There was a couple of successful cases out there (mostly in the US) where people who worked in bars were able to sue their employeer for illness they got while working in a cigarette infested work place (I still can't believe we still sell cigarrettes after all these years... just goes to show how addicted and influenced we are to the taxes obtained from cigarrettes, which is kind of foolishness really... has a huge negative costs as a whole. All of which society pays for in the long run )
So, considering the article below, can we sue the city or country for that matter for not doing a bit more to curb the pollution problem????
(eg demanding that automobile manufactures bring their rates of pollution down by X amount)
There were studies done after the big boom era of the 1950s (the birth of suburbia), and as highways were put through certain areas, it was found that lung diseases and such went up dramatically...
Yah'd probably hate to know the number of diseases and such associated to pollution. They'd never disclose that if they did...
" Toxic cities mock 'healthy' cycle riding:
CYCLING to work may seem the healthy option, but a study has shown that people riding in cities inhale tens of millions of toxic nanoparticles with every breath, at least five times more than drivers or pedestrians.
The research involved fitting cyclists with devices that could count the particles, mostly emitted by car exhausts, in the air they were breathing.
It showed that urban concentrations of nanoparticles, which measure just a few millionths of a millimetre, could reach several hundred thousand in a cubic centimetre of air.
The particles, when inhaled, have been linked to heart disease and respiratory problems.
Because they are exerting themselves, cyclists breathe harder and faster than other road users. The study found that they suck in about 1,000 cubic cm with each breath, meaning they may inhale tens of millions of the particles each time they fill their lungs, and billions during a whole journey.
“This is the first time anyone has counted the particles while also measuring people’s breathing during city commuting. It showed that cyclists can inhale an astonishing number of pollutant particles in one journey,” said Luc Int Panis of the transport research institute at Hasselt University in Belgium, who led the study.
For the research, just published in the journal Atmospheric Environment, Int Panis and his colleagues asked cyclists to pedal while wearing a mask fitted with instruments that could measure and count the particulates, as such particles are known. All are invisible even in severely polluted air.
More...from the Times Online at:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/envi...icle7140213.ece "
Full Version: Found This - Can We Sue?
no
why the hell not?
companies sue governments all the time for not living up to their contracts.
(btw: government's never sue. Companies always sue if the contracts are broken... its how we use to get what we wanted out of the government when I worked for some larger firms out there. )
citizens of the land pay taxes to ensure that their environment is safe to some reasonable level.
we could probably sue the company, but that would take years and would be painful. They have great lawyers.
So, we just let our country (or planet for that matter) go to hell in a sht basket then...
if that's the case... we might as well hand out hand guns when someone is born.
Drink the coolaid... its refreshing.
companies sue governments all the time for not living up to their contracts.
(btw: government's never sue. Companies always sue if the contracts are broken... its how we use to get what we wanted out of the government when I worked for some larger firms out there. )
citizens of the land pay taxes to ensure that their environment is safe to some reasonable level.
we could probably sue the company, but that would take years and would be painful. They have great lawyers.
So, we just let our country (or planet for that matter) go to hell in a sht basket then...
if that's the case... we might as well hand out hand guns when someone is born.
Drink the coolaid... its refreshing.
QUOTE(mtbasip @ Jun 1 2010, 11:15 AM) 
(btw: government's never sue.
actually
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/200...nt-tobacco.html
that's a pretty rare case though...
give me more and I'll give you many others (where companies sued the government)
Plenty of examples from our most recent light rail blunder to the airbus case to many large government contracts to some of the people held overseas and such after 9/11 etc... suing the governments in the millions (if not billions) of dollars. There are many examples.
(I've been on a couple of multi-million dollar project in excess of 300 million and a billion... there were plenty of times we used this card )
So, why can't the citizens of the land. They pay taxes to ensure there is a safe environment to some reasonable level. If a known threat is present and causing damage, isn't it reasonable to think that something is done to try to eliminate or at least reduce this potential problem? Especially if it has the potential to harm many lives? And, if studies have proven so...
(similar to a road that has a high fatality rate - if it has been proven that the road design is a major issue, can't someone sue the city for not taking due deligence on the matter? should be able to. Especially if they have a number of complaints, studies, and it has been proven etc... )
There has to be accountability in there some place. They can't simply shrug it off in hopes it goes away. Kind of irresponsible, ignorant and kind of in some "don't care state" (just some money making machine, laisse faire don't touch...) etc...
give me more and I'll give you many others (where companies sued the government)
Plenty of examples from our most recent light rail blunder to the airbus case to many large government contracts to some of the people held overseas and such after 9/11 etc... suing the governments in the millions (if not billions) of dollars. There are many examples.
(I've been on a couple of multi-million dollar project in excess of 300 million and a billion... there were plenty of times we used this card )
So, why can't the citizens of the land. They pay taxes to ensure there is a safe environment to some reasonable level. If a known threat is present and causing damage, isn't it reasonable to think that something is done to try to eliminate or at least reduce this potential problem? Especially if it has the potential to harm many lives? And, if studies have proven so...
(similar to a road that has a high fatality rate - if it has been proven that the road design is a major issue, can't someone sue the city for not taking due deligence on the matter? should be able to. Especially if they have a number of complaints, studies, and it has been proven etc... )
There has to be accountability in there some place. They can't simply shrug it off in hopes it goes away. Kind of irresponsible, ignorant and kind of in some "don't care state" (just some money making machine, laisse faire don't touch...) etc...
and the point of suing yourself is ?
suing self... in some regards...
but, we all work for ourselves in some regards.
As people of the land, we rely on it (the land) to provide basic essentials like food, water, place to house thy rear end etc...
As people of the land, we use it to create business. Business which is mostly reliant upon innovation and resources. Innovation is reliant upon resources being there to create goods and services.
Some business produces nothing (like a divorce lawyer writing everything off everything from their home to the toilet paper in thier house). Some businesses produces something (like RIM, Nortel, etc...)
Some business relies on the hardship of others and some polute etc...
As people of the land, we pay taxes to some large administrative body to ensure our land is kept reasonably safe to some degree. We can't stop every rogue player, every 5% don't give a crap person, etc... That would require a person to police every person... costly it would be.
This administrative body has a fundamental purpose to tax and redistribute in some regards. It has various departments to ensure we don't rape the land beneath our feet like some baboon. It has departments to ensure policy and procedures are in place to protect the land and its people.
It has to have some obligation to the people that it serves.
And, if it knows of some undue hardship, should it not try to eliminate or reduce that hardship?
(like someone or something polluting the land which we have to live)
Both business and this large administrative body serve some purpose (sometimes the empires grow to such an extent though they no longer make sense... and their mandates, objectives, purpose etc... get clouded... I can think of one that starts with an N and ends in a C)
Both live off tax dollars in some sense (proof is in the pudding - we have the action plan and the bail outs... worth about 600 billion dollars). Some not so much, especially if they export their product (eg RIM). We should be spending a heck of a lot more time creating companies like that...
So, in that regards... we mostly all live off our own money in some sense. Be it from the resources of the land or from bail outs etc... There is a finite pool of money available on the planet due to the finite resources (can't make something out of nothing really). Only so much money floating around the system.
So, why shouldn't it seem reasonable that some of this money be used to protect the people of the land instead of just being some money making machine (without regard for human life as the money making machine grows and grows...)?
And, what's going to hold it all accountable?
Someone (or something) being able to sue might.
Right now, there is absolutely very little.
but, we all work for ourselves in some regards.
As people of the land, we rely on it (the land) to provide basic essentials like food, water, place to house thy rear end etc...
As people of the land, we use it to create business. Business which is mostly reliant upon innovation and resources. Innovation is reliant upon resources being there to create goods and services.
Some business produces nothing (like a divorce lawyer writing everything off everything from their home to the toilet paper in thier house). Some businesses produces something (like RIM, Nortel, etc...)
Some business relies on the hardship of others and some polute etc...
As people of the land, we pay taxes to some large administrative body to ensure our land is kept reasonably safe to some degree. We can't stop every rogue player, every 5% don't give a crap person, etc... That would require a person to police every person... costly it would be.
This administrative body has a fundamental purpose to tax and redistribute in some regards. It has various departments to ensure we don't rape the land beneath our feet like some baboon. It has departments to ensure policy and procedures are in place to protect the land and its people.
It has to have some obligation to the people that it serves.
And, if it knows of some undue hardship, should it not try to eliminate or reduce that hardship?
(like someone or something polluting the land which we have to live)
Both business and this large administrative body serve some purpose (sometimes the empires grow to such an extent though they no longer make sense... and their mandates, objectives, purpose etc... get clouded... I can think of one that starts with an N and ends in a C)
Both live off tax dollars in some sense (proof is in the pudding - we have the action plan and the bail outs... worth about 600 billion dollars). Some not so much, especially if they export their product (eg RIM). We should be spending a heck of a lot more time creating companies like that...
So, in that regards... we mostly all live off our own money in some sense. Be it from the resources of the land or from bail outs etc... There is a finite pool of money available on the planet due to the finite resources (can't make something out of nothing really). Only so much money floating around the system.
So, why shouldn't it seem reasonable that some of this money be used to protect the people of the land instead of just being some money making machine (without regard for human life as the money making machine grows and grows...)?
And, what's going to hold it all accountable?
Someone (or something) being able to sue might.
Right now, there is absolutely very little.
Sueing is the American way - very little government regulations. Let business do whatever they want and after they destroy Louisiana you can sue the bankrupt company.
Some good some bad. What ever brings about some accountability.
otherwise, we get a hog wild hoot'n shoot'n town do anything.
America has stricter laws. Unfortunately, the opportunism is great there...
They sell itself on prosperity. With the selling of prosperity will come raping of the land and of its people.
There has to be a reasonable lifestyle and living.
Personally, when I cross over the border, I feel much safer biking on the roads over there than I do here.
otherwise, we get a hog wild hoot'n shoot'n town do anything.
America has stricter laws. Unfortunately, the opportunism is great there...
They sell itself on prosperity. With the selling of prosperity will come raping of the land and of its people.
There has to be a reasonable lifestyle and living.
Personally, when I cross over the border, I feel much safer biking on the roads over there than I do here.
Just go find yourself one of those lil merican towns with the bylaws that say you have to own a gun and settle down there.
just might...
typical don't care canadian way eh!
you pooh-pooh all over Americans. When in reality, we'd be absolutely fckd without them.
We piggy back off them big time for exports of goods (real goods, not just raw material... now, big up and coming countries will rape that away from us in no time... cause they can and we won't say a peep)
btw: on a per capita basis, canadians own more guns.
Our saviour is the fact we are only 35 million people (the size of California) and vast resources (for the time being... there are plenty of countries that are sniffing up our butt looking at those tasty treats though)
If we were the same size as the US (350 million people) and a shortage of resources (60% dependent on foreign oil), we'd be just as fck'd. Can't continue on spending like there is no tomorrow without consequences. Slowly, systems will erode and the deviation between the rich and poor divided.
Anyhow, getting back on topic - in my view, we should be able to sue. Especially if it is known that something is polluting the environment and causing great harm to the people of the land. For no one to do anything is kind of irresponsible, ignorant and careless towards its people.
If someone took a great big sht in your back yard and it was infested with some disease. And, this person knowingly did that. Then your dog came along and ate it,
wouldn't you sue that person?
(you'd probably sell the sht to a friend of yours... get them to taste it, see if it kills them...)
or, here's an interesting case for up in the gatineuas. (off topic again somewhat) - if someone plants prickly bushes to avoid people from going into an area. Yet, some child comes along and gets cut up to such an extent that their retina of their eye is torn etc... could you not sue the corporation that put those plants there ?
There are cases in the courts, where by, home owners did put up traps in their homes to catch criminals. The criminals did end up getting hurt. They were able to sue the home owner.
Its along the same sort of lines as someone spitting pollution into the air without a care in the world for the surrounding life forms...
Someone knowingly creating harm to others.
yet, as canadians... we don't seem to give a damn I guess.
typical don't care canadian way eh!
you pooh-pooh all over Americans. When in reality, we'd be absolutely fckd without them.
We piggy back off them big time for exports of goods (real goods, not just raw material... now, big up and coming countries will rape that away from us in no time... cause they can and we won't say a peep)
btw: on a per capita basis, canadians own more guns.
Our saviour is the fact we are only 35 million people (the size of California) and vast resources (for the time being... there are plenty of countries that are sniffing up our butt looking at those tasty treats though)
If we were the same size as the US (350 million people) and a shortage of resources (60% dependent on foreign oil), we'd be just as fck'd. Can't continue on spending like there is no tomorrow without consequences. Slowly, systems will erode and the deviation between the rich and poor divided.
Anyhow, getting back on topic - in my view, we should be able to sue. Especially if it is known that something is polluting the environment and causing great harm to the people of the land. For no one to do anything is kind of irresponsible, ignorant and careless towards its people.
If someone took a great big sht in your back yard and it was infested with some disease. And, this person knowingly did that. Then your dog came along and ate it,
wouldn't you sue that person?
(you'd probably sell the sht to a friend of yours... get them to taste it, see if it kills them...)
or, here's an interesting case for up in the gatineuas. (off topic again somewhat) - if someone plants prickly bushes to avoid people from going into an area. Yet, some child comes along and gets cut up to such an extent that their retina of their eye is torn etc... could you not sue the corporation that put those plants there ?
There are cases in the courts, where by, home owners did put up traps in their homes to catch criminals. The criminals did end up getting hurt. They were able to sue the home owner.
Its along the same sort of lines as someone spitting pollution into the air without a care in the world for the surrounding life forms...
Someone knowingly creating harm to others.
yet, as canadians... we don't seem to give a damn I guess.
I miss when MTBK was more of the threadjacking, funny, cycling variety of forum...
Its all related when it comes to road riding.
Road riding involves integrating oneself with vehicles.
Vehicles are suppose to be a luxury item from the economic classes I've taken in the past...
Yet, vehicles are now a "right" in some regards for it drives the overall economy. Everyone and their mother seems to own one.
As the number of vehicles increase (due to dumping of money into the economy - ie. bail outs, action plans etc.. what ever else they are going to call these major dumps of money all at once so big ticket items can be purchased to get the economy spinning (GDP) etc...)
the statistics against cyclists increase (the probability of getting hit out there).
Its pretty simple stats... doesn't take a math genius.
Things are going to change... they have to. We just can't keep pouring money down the drain as we have done in the past. The next generations will have one fk of a bill (current debt sits around 560 billion... we'll have another boom in the private sector as the pump is being primed again... then another public sector boom again... then we'll see the debt sit at an even higher amount I take it... )
Here's one change that is coming to TO:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/On...5065/story.html
"Ontario urged to charge road tolls
Toronto can't take more cars
"We have to face up to the fact that the roads in the GTA are plugged and millions more people are coming,"
So, the real question is though. As more and more studies are done on vehicle emissions. Can we sue ?
I'd say yes... just like some have done with the big tobacco companies.
Probably won't happen in canada though. But, in the US, maybe.
Sht, we let someone come along and rape our fishing stock out east. Next will be the mess left in the tar sands out west. And, if you've ever been biking in BC and seen some of the massive clear cuts.... ekks.
We like being raped of our stuff...
we are horrible at sticking up for our land and our rights in some regards.
So, as we dump more vehicles on the road. And, as lung diseases and such increase over time. We'll most likely just say "what happened" and sit there in a dazy. By that time, our health care will most likely be gone (big business is sniffing at that sucker and talks are in the works to privatize some of it...)... so, who cares really. The costs won't come out of one big pool of funds anymore...
Road riding involves integrating oneself with vehicles.
Vehicles are suppose to be a luxury item from the economic classes I've taken in the past...
Yet, vehicles are now a "right" in some regards for it drives the overall economy. Everyone and their mother seems to own one.
As the number of vehicles increase (due to dumping of money into the economy - ie. bail outs, action plans etc.. what ever else they are going to call these major dumps of money all at once so big ticket items can be purchased to get the economy spinning (GDP) etc...)
the statistics against cyclists increase (the probability of getting hit out there).
Its pretty simple stats... doesn't take a math genius.
Things are going to change... they have to. We just can't keep pouring money down the drain as we have done in the past. The next generations will have one fk of a bill (current debt sits around 560 billion... we'll have another boom in the private sector as the pump is being primed again... then another public sector boom again... then we'll see the debt sit at an even higher amount I take it... )
Here's one change that is coming to TO:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/On...5065/story.html
"Ontario urged to charge road tolls
Toronto can't take more cars
"We have to face up to the fact that the roads in the GTA are plugged and millions more people are coming,"
So, the real question is though. As more and more studies are done on vehicle emissions. Can we sue ?
I'd say yes... just like some have done with the big tobacco companies.
Probably won't happen in canada though. But, in the US, maybe.
Sht, we let someone come along and rape our fishing stock out east. Next will be the mess left in the tar sands out west. And, if you've ever been biking in BC and seen some of the massive clear cuts.... ekks.
We like being raped of our stuff...
we are horrible at sticking up for our land and our rights in some regards.
So, as we dump more vehicles on the road. And, as lung diseases and such increase over time. We'll most likely just say "what happened" and sit there in a dazy. By that time, our health care will most likely be gone (big business is sniffing at that sucker and talks are in the works to privatize some of it...)... so, who cares really. The costs won't come out of one big pool of funds anymore...
If you don't like it here, leave.
But The Man is everywhere... 
yah, but I was here first! (family came over here about 400 years ago. Not as long as the aboriginals or first nations... we just kind of run over them...)
you leave! I didn't create the mess...
anyhow, pretty typical canadian response... we aren't going to do anything... if you don't like it here leave.
Similar response we got when everyone in the high tech sector was moving south back in the 90s.
That's a pretty wimpy response. "if you don't like it here then leave"
How about something like - defining the problem then coming up with solutions...
We are half ass backwards in this country.
for example,
if a bunch of cyclists get hit, we'll blame the cyclists. Can't be the road design or the fact there are more vehicles on the road. No, we won't blame the other things that may have attributed to it because that may uncover uncover the real problem... shhhh... hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.
Anyhow, getting back to the problem - can we sue if someone/something is polluting our environment.
The typical canadian way - no way eh. Be tough, live with it eh...
But, why the hell not.
Is it not our given right to live in a safe society. If not, then why the hell are we here?
just too make money and rape it all away?
How about lets do something about the problems. Its not that big, we are only 35 million people. Its not like we are India or China with 2.5 billion people.
To sue is to force accountability in some sense. Especially when it comes to something like the environment. Government needs to impose stricter laws and policy.
Right now, we kind of give into big corporations (eg automotive sector).
Now, it wouldn't be all that bad if we had many small players. For, they would have to change.
But, big players can hold the country "hostage" in some regards... we've just seen it with the bail outs.
So, there is not incentive for them to change. Its kind of along the same lines as BP and the oil spill. They knew the risk was there, they did a cost-benefit... took the risk. They know the government isn't going to sue them. Yet, public perception is hitting them in the pocket book for now (stock price dropped dramatically).
So, if people start sueing for polluted air, public perception may change. Forcing manufactures to change.
Forcing them to put on stricter emission standards, build smaller vehicles, ...
Confine the times to which people can drive. The most wasteful time is rush hour. For momentum is not conserved. etc...
To just say "if you don't like it leave" is a wimpy cop out really.
Man, what do you guys do if you have a neighbour with a dog that likes to sht all over your lawn.
I have to run now... I'm going to grab a laxative on the way out.
you leave! I didn't create the mess...
anyhow, pretty typical canadian response... we aren't going to do anything... if you don't like it here leave.
Similar response we got when everyone in the high tech sector was moving south back in the 90s.
That's a pretty wimpy response. "if you don't like it here then leave"
How about something like - defining the problem then coming up with solutions...
We are half ass backwards in this country.
for example,
if a bunch of cyclists get hit, we'll blame the cyclists. Can't be the road design or the fact there are more vehicles on the road. No, we won't blame the other things that may have attributed to it because that may uncover uncover the real problem... shhhh... hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.
Anyhow, getting back to the problem - can we sue if someone/something is polluting our environment.
The typical canadian way - no way eh. Be tough, live with it eh...
But, why the hell not.
Is it not our given right to live in a safe society. If not, then why the hell are we here?
just too make money and rape it all away?
How about lets do something about the problems. Its not that big, we are only 35 million people. Its not like we are India or China with 2.5 billion people.
To sue is to force accountability in some sense. Especially when it comes to something like the environment. Government needs to impose stricter laws and policy.
Right now, we kind of give into big corporations (eg automotive sector).
Now, it wouldn't be all that bad if we had many small players. For, they would have to change.
But, big players can hold the country "hostage" in some regards... we've just seen it with the bail outs.
So, there is not incentive for them to change. Its kind of along the same lines as BP and the oil spill. They knew the risk was there, they did a cost-benefit... took the risk. They know the government isn't going to sue them. Yet, public perception is hitting them in the pocket book for now (stock price dropped dramatically).
So, if people start sueing for polluted air, public perception may change. Forcing manufactures to change.
Forcing them to put on stricter emission standards, build smaller vehicles, ...
Confine the times to which people can drive. The most wasteful time is rush hour. For momentum is not conserved. etc...
To just say "if you don't like it leave" is a wimpy cop out really.
Man, what do you guys do if you have a neighbour with a dog that likes to sht all over your lawn.
I have to run now... I'm going to grab a laxative on the way out.
Know what else is a whimpy cop-out?
"I didn't create this mess"
Oh, but you did sir. You are just as responsible as (nearly) everyone else in this country.
"I didn't create this mess"
Oh, but you did sir. You are just as responsible as (nearly) everyone else in this country.
The only way to remove yourself from the equation is to move to hte middle of nowhere and live off of the land....don't bring nothing man made with you cuz its FROM THE MAN
irish.on.mtb - so you do admit there is a mess then...
my foot print is pretty small. I don't congest the roads all that much during rush hour. Hence, not that much of a burdon to taxes. The congestion during rush hour is a huge huge tax burdon on society.
And, I don't require all that much to live. Just give me a small shack and I'm happy as a pig in sht.
you still smell like teenage urine. When you get a bit older go visit the world. There are places where people do live completely off the grid. They do have passive means of collecting energy and warming water. They do have a means of growing fruit and vegetables off the land in their back yard. They have a reasonable size home. Everything pretty much local.
What we have now is just a highly dependent society really. You are dependent on that big box store. Highly dependent on some fossil fuel big hunk of metal. Highly dependent on the infrastructures. Oh yah, and cheap energy - energy to heat your bones in winter. Without heat, we are absolutley fck'd.
The equation we are on now is heavily reliant upon housing and vehicle sales really. We don't build much anymore... Just take a look at most of the jobs being created now a days. All the ones creating innovation and exportable product (makes the economy grow) are all gone overseas. (I can't tell you the number of high end engineers/developers/programmers I now know out of work - FPGA/ASIC designers etc... as most of that work has gone overseas.... and, no one wants to say a peep about it... cause we've gotten too expensive for ourselves really).
Hence, with an equation as we have now (gdp based on housing sales and vehicle sales. Heck the big bank profits just stated so last day as most of the profits are due to housing sales... wouldn't it be nice if gdp was based on innovation and human capital investment to a greater degree - making quality product that we export) its heavily reliant on population growth. Numbers really. And, not really improving human capital nor innovation.
Anyhow, I can go on and on. But, I'm discussing this with young inexperienced ears and there are better sites to discuss such topics ... come talk when we have pushed so much debt onto you. Your generation will pay for it as the debt just gets pushed farther and farther away (pump is being primed right now for the private sector again, we'll see huge cuts to the public sector in 2011-12. More cuts to education and health care. Possibly cuts to CPP, etc... in hopes this money can be used to prime the pump etc... in hopes the whole cycle starts again. Major limiting factor of course is cheap energy. Oil being one of these factors. There comes a time when reality sets in and economics has to behave/adhere to the physical, biological and chemical limits of the planet... we might of just reached this point. As we hit peak GDP... )
But,
The issue at hand here - why can't we sue if some managing entity knows about some big problem effecting human health?
No one really gives a damn lets shuve it under the carpet?
Is that what we have come to.
Looking that way. I swear someone can rape us silly.
I'll leave you guys the number to the local big box store. They have a tampon sale this week. Check it out... I really gotta run and won't be on for a couple of days. Enjoy the weather while the heat is free. We'll be btch'n once the cold stuff comes back in a couple of months... get out and ride while the going is still good!
my foot print is pretty small. I don't congest the roads all that much during rush hour. Hence, not that much of a burdon to taxes. The congestion during rush hour is a huge huge tax burdon on society.
And, I don't require all that much to live. Just give me a small shack and I'm happy as a pig in sht.
you still smell like teenage urine. When you get a bit older go visit the world. There are places where people do live completely off the grid. They do have passive means of collecting energy and warming water. They do have a means of growing fruit and vegetables off the land in their back yard. They have a reasonable size home. Everything pretty much local.
What we have now is just a highly dependent society really. You are dependent on that big box store. Highly dependent on some fossil fuel big hunk of metal. Highly dependent on the infrastructures. Oh yah, and cheap energy - energy to heat your bones in winter. Without heat, we are absolutley fck'd.
The equation we are on now is heavily reliant upon housing and vehicle sales really. We don't build much anymore... Just take a look at most of the jobs being created now a days. All the ones creating innovation and exportable product (makes the economy grow) are all gone overseas. (I can't tell you the number of high end engineers/developers/programmers I now know out of work - FPGA/ASIC designers etc... as most of that work has gone overseas.... and, no one wants to say a peep about it... cause we've gotten too expensive for ourselves really).
Hence, with an equation as we have now (gdp based on housing sales and vehicle sales. Heck the big bank profits just stated so last day as most of the profits are due to housing sales... wouldn't it be nice if gdp was based on innovation and human capital investment to a greater degree - making quality product that we export) its heavily reliant on population growth. Numbers really. And, not really improving human capital nor innovation.
Anyhow, I can go on and on. But, I'm discussing this with young inexperienced ears and there are better sites to discuss such topics ... come talk when we have pushed so much debt onto you. Your generation will pay for it as the debt just gets pushed farther and farther away (pump is being primed right now for the private sector again, we'll see huge cuts to the public sector in 2011-12. More cuts to education and health care. Possibly cuts to CPP, etc... in hopes this money can be used to prime the pump etc... in hopes the whole cycle starts again. Major limiting factor of course is cheap energy. Oil being one of these factors. There comes a time when reality sets in and economics has to behave/adhere to the physical, biological and chemical limits of the planet... we might of just reached this point. As we hit peak GDP... )
But,
The issue at hand here - why can't we sue if some managing entity knows about some big problem effecting human health?
No one really gives a damn lets shuve it under the carpet?
Is that what we have come to.
Looking that way. I swear someone can rape us silly.
I'll leave you guys the number to the local big box store. They have a tampon sale this week. Check it out... I really gotta run and won't be on for a couple of days. Enjoy the weather while the heat is free. We'll be btch'n once the cold stuff comes back in a couple of months... get out and ride while the going is still good!
Actually it's the other way around, american import a **** load of products from us. When was the last time you saw "Made in U.S.A." here in Canada. And with their economy being in the crapper we don't export nearly as much as we used to. Our products have been slowly but surely shipped off overseas more and more.
Oh, and telling a fellow Canadian to leave if he doesn't like it here doesn't mean we don't care about any said situation. It just shows that people who whine and complain about every single thing in this country don't appreciate what they have and don't deserve to live here. We have it pretty darn good here compared to other places around the world so better to move forward and build on the good points. Yes theirs problems, but problems are created by people so if we don't want any then better to move out in the middle of nowhere and live off the land like mentioned above.
Find something that you really enjoy in life that needs some improvement and go out to help.
I rarely write anything this long on a forum, keeping it sweet and short makes a better point rather then to get people bored out of hell with continuous long posts in threads.
Oh, and telling a fellow Canadian to leave if he doesn't like it here doesn't mean we don't care about any said situation. It just shows that people who whine and complain about every single thing in this country don't appreciate what they have and don't deserve to live here. We have it pretty darn good here compared to other places around the world so better to move forward and build on the good points. Yes theirs problems, but problems are created by people so if we don't want any then better to move out in the middle of nowhere and live off the land like mentioned above.
Find something that you really enjoy in life that needs some improvement and go out to help.
I rarely write anything this long on a forum, keeping it sweet and short makes a better point rather then to get people bored out of hell with continuous long posts in threads.
Of course there's a problem. Again, thats why Im taking ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES, because I am concerned about helping to solve it you moron.
"I really gotta run and won't be on for a couple of days."
I don't believe you.
"I really gotta run and won't be on for a couple of days."
I don't believe you.
I hope your not calling me the moron, wasn't aiming at you.
wanta play the name calling game, okay...
irish.on.mtb - how the fk little pecker heads like you get into environmental studies is way way beyond me. You seem more of an opportunist than some environmentalist!
I betcha yah go work for some big oil firm claiming to be some "nice" environmental young man. Meanwhile, your fcking everyone's grandmother out of their pension at the other end.
Kids like you should be shoveling sht in a barn yard. Get some digging of the ditches first so yah get an appreciation for hard work. Then go into the corporate world so yah don't end up some little sht stealing from grandmas out there! may the corporate world eat you up and spit you out like some little whore puppy.
there that was fun, now lets dance hun.
Anyhow, go watch this documentary:
http://www.cpac.ca/forms/index.asp?dsp=tem...amp;clipID=2924
Paul Collier
May 27th
The environment and the bottom billion
it covers some of the key points...
Canada has a lead role to play in the coming years due to our vast resources. We can either screw it up (which I think we will cause there are a sht load of opportunists sniffing up our azz willing to rape it all away in no time and we are naive in other regards etc...).
From our track record, we cut cut cut in times of sorrow. And, offer up huge subsidies. Depleting our human capital investment while giving away our resources.
Which brings back the initial question - can we sue for environmental damage. Probably can. But, not in Canada. We don't have the balls here. We better get balls soon though. Cause there are a lot of people like little irish.on.mtb who would sell this country off in no time flat so he can fck the next person in line.
(lots of opportunists sniffing at canada's butt and we look tasty )
We are stuck in "lassie faire" mode in some regards... stagnant. Better wake up soon... someone gonna put jelly on our azz and fck us silly pretty soon all for the sake of this thing will call gdp and "prosperity".
Now prosperity is alright in some regards, but when it just comes to raping of the land for its resources without reinvestment into human capital, jonny we might have a problem in the long term...
We have it good now, but with our lack of human capital investment (R&D etc...) and soon coming cuts (2011 is going to be nasty)... we'll sell our resources away to make up the losses.
How is this related to the initial question. If we don't give a damn about our own health (eg something polluting the environment) how the hell can we give a sht about the country as a whole.
"how can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat!"
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5diMImYIIA )
It seems as though its all about short term thinking now. And, we'll piss it all away in a matter of seconds for that quick buck thinking (casino style thinking). If someone is creating great harm to the people of the nation (be it pouring pollution into the air or stealing resources from under our feet etc...). We should be standing up. But, we don't for the most part. No balls? naive? just too caught up in making a quick buck? (short term thinkers)
we better buy Vaseline. Its on sale this week!
Hence, the ability to sue is much better than vaseline on your rear end.
cut and paste that into your next book report...
irish.on.mtb - how the fk little pecker heads like you get into environmental studies is way way beyond me. You seem more of an opportunist than some environmentalist!
I betcha yah go work for some big oil firm claiming to be some "nice" environmental young man. Meanwhile, your fcking everyone's grandmother out of their pension at the other end.
Kids like you should be shoveling sht in a barn yard. Get some digging of the ditches first so yah get an appreciation for hard work. Then go into the corporate world so yah don't end up some little sht stealing from grandmas out there! may the corporate world eat you up and spit you out like some little whore puppy.
there that was fun, now lets dance hun.
Anyhow, go watch this documentary:
http://www.cpac.ca/forms/index.asp?dsp=tem...amp;clipID=2924
Paul Collier
May 27th
The environment and the bottom billion
it covers some of the key points...
Canada has a lead role to play in the coming years due to our vast resources. We can either screw it up (which I think we will cause there are a sht load of opportunists sniffing up our azz willing to rape it all away in no time and we are naive in other regards etc...).
From our track record, we cut cut cut in times of sorrow. And, offer up huge subsidies. Depleting our human capital investment while giving away our resources.
Which brings back the initial question - can we sue for environmental damage. Probably can. But, not in Canada. We don't have the balls here. We better get balls soon though. Cause there are a lot of people like little irish.on.mtb who would sell this country off in no time flat so he can fck the next person in line.
(lots of opportunists sniffing at canada's butt and we look tasty )
We are stuck in "lassie faire" mode in some regards... stagnant. Better wake up soon... someone gonna put jelly on our azz and fck us silly pretty soon all for the sake of this thing will call gdp and "prosperity".
Now prosperity is alright in some regards, but when it just comes to raping of the land for its resources without reinvestment into human capital, jonny we might have a problem in the long term...
We have it good now, but with our lack of human capital investment (R&D etc...) and soon coming cuts (2011 is going to be nasty)... we'll sell our resources away to make up the losses.
How is this related to the initial question. If we don't give a damn about our own health (eg something polluting the environment) how the hell can we give a sht about the country as a whole.
"how can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat!"
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5diMImYIIA )
It seems as though its all about short term thinking now. And, we'll piss it all away in a matter of seconds for that quick buck thinking (casino style thinking). If someone is creating great harm to the people of the nation (be it pouring pollution into the air or stealing resources from under our feet etc...). We should be standing up. But, we don't for the most part. No balls? naive? just too caught up in making a quick buck? (short term thinkers)
we better buy Vaseline. Its on sale this week!
Hence, the ability to sue is much better than vaseline on your rear end.
cut and paste that into your next book report...
LMFAO 
Comments directed at mtbasip, not jbernard... we seem to be getting at the same thing.
My job is environmentally-related where I am outside for long periods of time, for fairly minimum-wage pay. We'll leave it at that, but rest assured, I wll not be selling the country for some sort of crazed anal-rape-orgy you have in mind.
My job is environmentally-related where I am outside for long periods of time, for fairly minimum-wage pay. We'll leave it at that, but rest assured, I wll not be selling the country for some sort of crazed anal-rape-orgy you have in mind.
anal rape orgy - where?
I've seen that in the gats before... there's weird sht that goes on up there without warning.
Anyhow, everyone should dig the ditches in their youth.
You missed the boat by a couple of years. I know plenty of 20 somethings right out of university with 0 experience (not even summer jobs), making well over 85k a year in the government.
Foolishness!
Then the government complains, why aren't things working... or why are things getting corrupt (private firms die if they get corrupt, governments just keep on growing... plenty of examples of this throughout the world).
I wonder why - you take kids right out of school and hand them a gold platter. You don't think they are going to ask for more and more as they hit their most productive years in their 30s and 40s (prime money making years).
Absolute foolishness.
I've seen that in the gats before... there's weird sht that goes on up there without warning.
Anyhow, everyone should dig the ditches in their youth.
You missed the boat by a couple of years. I know plenty of 20 somethings right out of university with 0 experience (not even summer jobs), making well over 85k a year in the government.
Foolishness!
Then the government complains, why aren't things working... or why are things getting corrupt (private firms die if they get corrupt, governments just keep on growing... plenty of examples of this throughout the world).
I wonder why - you take kids right out of school and hand them a gold platter. You don't think they are going to ask for more and more as they hit their most productive years in their 30s and 40s (prime money making years).
Absolute foolishness.
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